Self Advocation Power Hour Episode 5: SAU1 Beginnings: Oscar

April 22, 2025 | by sau1admin

Transcript

Introduction

Ed Auerbeck: Welcome to the Self Advocation Power Hour. My name is Ed Auerbeck, and I'm here with my co-host Nancy Havener

Nancy Havener: Hello, everyone.

Ed: Hi, Nancy. Good to see ya. I don't know about you, but I would say we have the best podcast yet with a gentleman named Oscar Drummond, today, that was a founding member and longtime president of SAU1.

Nancy: I would definitely agree. Oscar has, he has such a way with like, a unique way of thinking of things that I, I think everyone needs to hear.

Ed: Yes, he's very eloquent. Alongside him for some assistance in clarifying some of his statements we have Sierra Shipton. I want to include her because she was present for the conversation as well. But buckle in and get excited for like I said, what I belive is our best interview yet. Without further ado, the great Oscar Drummond.

Conversation

Oscar: Well, you can ask me anything. I'm ready, willing, and able.

Ed: Okay, I appreciate that, very much. The first question I would say is what is your earliest memory of you advocating for yourself, or somebody telling you that you had to advocate for yourself, and how did that experience go, and how did you know that you wanted to continue doing that?

Oscar: Okay, here we go. I'm just gonna say 2000 just because I don't remember, you know. So I'm gonna say around way before SAU1 got started. You know it was back when I was stuck at home for four years and finally you know, I said well, let me try something. Let me try to go to a workshop or whatever just to get out into the community. But it's something I didn't want to do, but I said let me try. Let me just go and be in the community and you know be out there. And it was just so happen that by me talking to people then one day you know somebody stopped by the workshop where I was and was asking people to join a group and somebody from the workshop let me know how I could speak out and they connected me and you know then thats how it got started, you know. But just being able to be a part of opening up and saying what I wanted to say, was part of getting somebody to listen and to connect you to something so you can be a part of it you know?

Ed: Right. And that's great 'cause that seems like a pretty universal story, or at least somewhat common, that a lot of people that say they've started advocating, don't want to at the beginning. Or I shouldn't say don't want to, but they have hesitations about it. By doing something that you didn't necessarily want to do, you ended up opening up all these new doors for yourself.

Oscar: Yeah I think that, you know, you might not want to be there wherever you were, you might not want to be in somewhere you know, making yourself think about why am I here? But actually when you're there, maybe it could open a door up. So maybe if it wasn't for me being in an area where somebody said oh you speak up pretty good so why don't you be a part of this or part of that. And I think that's how I became a part of different things to get where I am today. You know but I just thought if you want to step out there and say let me try and see what you get. Sometimes I think we have to put ourselves in places so we can maybe push ourselves to do better. And You know it's kinda like putting yourself on water you really don't want to be on, or somewhere you really don't want to be, but you do it because you want to be able to get out there in the community.

Ed: Right. And how did the connection with you and SAU1, how long did it take before the other founding members and you yourself found each other and sort of started the somewhat roller coaster process of starting the organization?

Oscar: Well, I think I was working with Vision on a training and they wanted to fund this group, a group of self advocacy. Me and a couple other people were one of the founding members you know by just using our voices and speaking up for different things and being part of the community, being in Harrisburg. And they thought that I would be a good speaker. So that's pretty much how I remember it. It started from one place leading to another and then starting from that place and then we kinda ventured out on our own, but it was under Vision for Equality and then we grew and then we just went on our own. So I think just being able to speak up for different things. Be like oh, you can be a part of this. And you can be a leader. I mean, I think being a part of leadership and different things. And also, helping people know you.

Ed: Oscar, I heard you say about meeting the other self advocates, or people that would become the board, if you had to gauge, how long of a process would you say it was before you guys really had your feet under you, and started to, make progress in the world of self advocacy?

Oscar: It was like a year because we were in it and we started opening doors. It was a process because you had to get people to believe people could do it with disabilities, you know? You had to prove yourself as an organization that this could be run by people with disabilities and not somebody who puts on suit and tie, and somebody connected to the system. But it was run by us. I think that's where people have problems. They think because we have a disability we can't be leaders. But we made a lot of people think differently over the years.

Ed: How does that process, Oscar, how did it impact you as far as like if you were feeling that sort of vibe from people that these people can't be self advocates because of their disabilities and all those things, how did it impact you and how does the rolling with the punches go and how do you keep so positive in the face of something like that?

Oscar: Well, you know, it's very funny. I think, because when people see you have that kind of knowledge and people hear your voice, there's still people that are going to doubt you in your own life, that you can't be a leader, but when you make people, and I'm sorry to use this word, but when you make people a liar it'll go a long way because for me it's built my character to say you should keep going, you can encourage people, you know, encourage people, and they're still out here in the systems and things and you can do it. I mean, I give you one quick example.

Ed: Yeah, great.

Oscar: I have a neighbor on the block and she has a son who has multiple disabilities and because of living it and advocating, I think, me personally, people have taught, have some of the things that are not, are not true. You know how parents are. They get, they're protective. But what happens with that overprotection, people don't want to help, no more, the person with a disability.

Ed: Right, because I know we had talked about that in the pre-interview that a lot of the situations could be dealt with or these questions that kids have or their parents have could be solved by just asking what for them must be an uncomfortable question but that's the only way we're going to better integrate into society I believe. Is there any kind of particular story that you have along those lines that you were able to open somebody's eyes and basically tell them like I would much rather you ask the questions and be a little bit uncomfortable and basically include me in society rather than sort of shunning me, and how has that experience gone for you and do people seem to, do they learn from you saying that or are they still a little bit gun shy?

Oscar: I mean, I'm still teaching people. There's people that I haven't got to teach and to prepare. You're going to be teaching all your life because people don't want to believe that people with disabilities can speak up. Some people are still back in the old days. You know what I mean?

Ed: Yes.

Oscar: Well, you know what I mean, it's changed, because for all those people who were back in the day and now further along, I'm gonna say the family who still won't listen. So it's like they want to protect, but what happens, the child fall by wayside because nobody wants to support because even when your parents advocate, they say, oh well I ain't doing that because his family said this, or said that. But for me, it made me stronger. I'm gonna keep speaking up. I mean, I still get that myself, but at least it's much smoother.

Ed: From a lot of what you said there, Oscar, it sounds like it comes back to a phrase I heard you repeat a few times in our pre-interview which is people are people. You're gonna run into those people that are uncomfortable and all that kind of stuff, but you can't stop in the face of that. I thought you had said something in your answer too about part of your family not accepting it, did I hear that correctly?

Oscar: I guess in a way, my brother is. And some of them will do, but they will not always be there for you. They might want what's best for you, but they're not going to be there if you need them to take care of you, you know what I mean? Because it's like a burden, you know what I mean?

Ed: Right, they're not gonna be the first ones to step up, I guess is what you're...

Oscar: Yeah.

Ed: Yeah.

Oscar: Yeah. I'm happy where I'm at because I don't have to depend on them like that, you know what I mean? And I see a lot of people, you know, with disabilities go through that now, you know, either their parents won't do for them so they end up in a worse situation and can't get connected because, you know...

Ed: Yes.

Oscar: It's kinda like you get a bad rap for what your family doesn't do for you.

Ed: Exactly. I like the way you said that. I would like to know how having the SAU1 brand behind you, and having all these support systems that you're basically in charge of informing people about, how has that impacted your self advocacy and how has that made it stronger, and in what ways do you hope maybe to improve it going into the future?

Oscar: Well, number one, you know, when I first started this I was proud to do it, proud to be a leader of something. Yeah, I knew that I have to start, you know. But so I was just supposed to be a leader in self advocacy. But it wasn't just that. It's being able to get your voice heard and understood and get the things you want and then speak up. And it's so hard today because people just don't want to believe that, you know. And in the future, I hope that we can get recognized by some of these politicians and just like everybody else out here should be able to have worth and be heard, and live the way all people live, you know what I mean?

Ed: Yes. So basically what I heard you say there was about getting politicians and people, people involved that have positions of power, but also kind of making that impact on how all people live and making, making us all one big community is that, is that correct?

Oscar: Yeah.

Ed: There was a question I thought of earlier about again, SAU1's impact and what that means for you to have a place that you were president of for 10 years. Does it feel like a second home to you, because all these people that have the common goal that you have? I just picture it as so rewarding and so wonderful that you have a place you can go that if you're ever feeling down about your self advocacy or questioning what you're doing there's a bunch of people to affirm that this is, this is the direction that your life should go in and this is, this is the part of life that you are basically meant to, meant to have, or at least have it be a part of your life. How does that impact you, kinda that second family mentality, if you have that at all? But I don't mean to graft that onto you, that was just the way I phrased the question.

Oscar: I mean, it's ok. I mean I'll tell you all, this group here is my baby. And not that I'm being selfish. What that means is that I built something that I can hold in my heart to know that I can speak for the values of self advocacy, the values of having a way of life that you want to live and knowing that you can speak up. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying that I have that way that you know some of the passion I built working on the values itself from the system that I can instill that in people's lives and do it through training or whatever. That my voice, my words will be part of the system forever. And that's something that you know you can live by that. As far as getting down, I think we get down because sometimes our advocacy don't go where we want it to go at the right moment. You know what I mean?

Ed: That's one of those things, I find it so inspirational about this organization is the fact that there's all these people kinda going for one mission in the fact that you wanna advocate for yourselves, but also there's the element of the individual that everybody's life is their own, sort of the my life, my way philosophy. How do you balance the teamwork of everybody sort of moving the same direction but also understanding that everybody has their own vision for their life and you gotta let them kind of guide it themselves. Is there a struggle in that? I assume at some point there might have been disagreements about maybe messaging or something like that. Can you recall any of those or has it all just been a pretty natural transition understanding the individual but also encouraging the group mentality if that makes any sense?

Oscar: I mean, I think you will have the people because of society, you know, and the way people teach them. You know, you're going to have your doubts and you're going to have your doubters, you know, your commenters and all that. And that's because you're gonna have people who want to put you down, and do different things and everything like that.

Ed: Oscar, is it ok, could I have Sierra clarify some of that for me? I was having a little bit of trouble.

Oscar: Ok.

Sierra: Oscar, I think what I heard you say is that you're always gonna have people that are gonna put you down or you know, that sort of thing that you sort of have to work against. Did I catch that right?

Oscar: Yeah.

Ed: Ok.

Sierra: Ed, I think your question, if I could help clarify?

Ed: Yes.

Sierra: Is more about the different, say board members, or staff, and how they work together. Is that what you were getting at more?

Ed: Basically, just the impact of working together, but also the idea that everybody's life is their own and how that balance is struck, or if there have been any kind of discussions about how best to strike that balance.

Oscar: You gotta know that, you know, what is your boundaries because society is going to try to knock you down and I think if we keep our messages strong as far as for the people, you know, of just try to teach people that hey, you know this is the way people are taught and just by, you know, what we teach and learn and put together, I think that really helps, you know, because we can't make everything perfect. We can't make society believe what a self advocate's worth. All we can do is teach them what we need. You know what I mean?

Ed: Right. Basically if I heard you say that right, that all we can do is teach what we know, or what we want, and it doesn't have to be something that you have the I guess the group on your shoulders, that kinda thing. It's just about doing what you can do individually and then magnifying that with the group, would that fit what you're going for there, Oscar?

Oscar: Yep. Yep

Ed: I guess the definition of self advocacy maybe doesn't change but has what it means in your life changed in the fact that, it's not just, like it's not something that you're just doing for yourself, you're doing it for the greater good. Is that overwhelming ever?

Oscar: Yeah, you know what? It's not, because I have my choice and I like doing it for myself but also I'm doing it for a group. I'm doing it for people to be united in self advocacy period. I'm helping people become self advocacy, being comfortable speaking up for themselves. I'm using my own experience to help people understand where I come from. Did you get that?

Ed: Oscar, I was gonna say would it be ok if I had Sierra clarify that last part for me?

Oscar: Sure, no problem.

Sierra: So, Oscar, let me know if I got this, but what I heard you say was it doesn't become too much for you because what you're doing is taking your own experience and using it to help other people.

Oscar: Yeah.

Sierra: So, that's sort of how you keep it from becoming too much or keep it from, you know, being too much weight on your shoulders is it all comes from your own experience. And you're just sharing that, and using that to teach others.

Oscar: Yeah. And you also have to be careful of people making you feel that way of speaking up about yourself. So I'm always careful and you know not saying. Because I always tell people, I'm not thinking about myself. And then I'm just helping people become united as being self advocates, being able to have our voice, you know?

Ed: Yes. I believe I got that Oscar, that you're basically saying that you guys are one voice but you don't try to speak for other people.

Oscar: Yep.

Ed: Sierra, I was gonna say, my bad on that one, could you clarify just a little bit of that follow up answer?

Sierra: Sure. So, Oscar, part of what I heard you say, to add to what Ed got, was that sometimes people will say well you're making it about yourself. And so, that you try to be very careful about how you say things or how you share your own experience so that you're using it kind of as an example but you're trying not to make it about yourself.

Oscar: Yeah.

Ed: Okay. Every disabled person's experience is their own experience, and even though we're kind of encouraging people not to put us in groups and all those type of things it gets overwhelming for people that people with disabilities are just like them, that we're individuals and we all have our own views and beliefs and all those things. So is there a way that we can strongly encourage society to stop putting us all in those boxes, Oscar, and how do you handle that?

Oscar: I mean, you know, you just gotta say, you know, look, I don't want to be put in a box. But I think also, let me tell you about something real quick. When you talk about having self advocates, and they want their part, you're gonna have people who are gonna try to be all self and get what they want. And it's hard because when people do that, people think, you know, the big people think that oh they can't do it. Or you know when people want to do it for what they want, it's more tougher because they're not being united.

Ed: And I think you would agree with this, Oscar, that it's good individually but you also need the group for that support that we were talking about earlier.

Oscar: Yeah.

Ed: Is there one thing about self advocacy that you think people don't know, or don't appreciate, that you wish that they would, and could be sort of a cornerstone of their own journey in self advocacy?

Oscar: I want to say that, you know, there's a lot of people that could probably speak up for themselves and be self advocates, but I think there's a lot of people who are afraid to do it because they think that they will lose something or somebody is going to be mad at them, or, you know what I mean?

Ed: I know it's different for everybody but how would you sort of encourage people to let that slip away?

Oscar: The only thing I can say about that is I can just speak for different groups, different people I can speak for, I can say what I gotta say but it's all about that I can give you the message but it's how people take it, but at least I can give them the information.

Ed: If I can just clarify, you were saying that you can give people the information but what they do with it is basically their own responsibility. And after you give them the information you sort of cut yourself out of the process because I imagine if you were trying to communicate with them and somebody just wasn't getting it, it can be rather frustrating so you can't really make them understand. They either get it or they don't.

Oscar: I mean, I'm just to give you the information. I'm not saying do it, I'm just giving information. And that's all I wanna do with self advocacy, because we can't make people do anything. All we can do is give it. And hope that you know, as far as all the other stuff, it's just up to them as a person to do whatever they want to do with the information.

Ed: Yeah, so the information's out there and whatever they want to do with it, that is their prerogative. Really were trying to sort of force people to understand your side of it and how long did it take before you were able to let that go, back to the kind of people are people kind of mentality and was it a disappointing experience, or was it just something that you were able to accept?

Oscar: Well, you know, I'm not able to answer that question because I don't think I would ever do it that way. If you really think about this question, that probably was something back in my childhood where I was frustrated and people didn't see my way as a child, but as far as being an adult, I really can't answer that question. I guess I was just saying, me as a adult I never dealt with that problem, but me as a teenager, I dealt with that because I feel like I wasn't connected with people, you know, when I was a teenager.

Ed: Understood. Ok. Just as an aside, who was the first one to call you The Preacher? I've heard you referred to as that.

Oscar: I'm trying to remember. I think it was Kaye or Sharon. I can't remember.

Ed: Ok. Yeah, I was just curious because that element of your charisma and all that kind of stuff definitely comes through and I appreciate the passion that you bring to this and I'm so glad that we're going to be able to put that passion out into the world for a lot of people to find out about and hopefully discover a desire to be self advocates themselves, or just discover SAU1.

Oscar: Aww. Thank you. And I'll just say that's one of the powerful things is being called that because when you know that you have that kind of power it makes all the difference in the world, that you know what I mean, that I can empower somebody. Whether they join the group or not at least I can empower somebody.

Ed: Yes, and what you said about, yeah, just making all the difference in the world, that really is down to your, I guess kind of, your outlook on life, and also a great message I believe for so many people. Is too big for them to ever be able to start advocating for themselves or advocating for others, it's really not as big as we make it and it just starts with a day after day mentality that ok, slowly we're going to chip away at this. And I think, along with many other things, you're an embodiment of that. Just your confidence and your ability to speak up for what you want, I mean, in a lot of ways your are the embodiment of this organization. And I just appreciate, I can't imagine it but, just how much work and effort that it's taken, and I appreciate you because you and the other board members are reasons why I can have a job here. I'm very appreciative of that and I appreciate you talking to me today.

Oscar: Oh, well whenever you want to talk to me, just let me know, and I'm so happy to meet you and to share the same passion that you might have. I mean, I think sometimes we often think about, boy, you know a lot of people when you talk to them they might have the same idea, not the same way, but in some ways, it does be the right way, so thank you.

Ed: You are very welcome, Oscar. We appreciate it. I'm sure we'll have you back at some point down the line here. Also, I would just like to thank you, Sierra, for being here and being part of the conversation to assist. We'll be back with more of the Self Advocation Power Hour after this.

Wrap Up

Ed: Well, that's a wrap on another episode of the Self Advocation Power Hour. I'm back with my co-host, Nancy. What did you think of the interview overall, Nancy?

Nancy: Oh, I think it was amazing. The stuff that Oscar says is so profound and interesting. I feel like he had a lot of good things to say.

Ed: Yes, and we love amplifying these voices for you on these podcasts. That's one of the bright spots of doing it, is doing the interviews. And we hope to bring you many more. Thank you so very much for being here, and remember to stay empowered. You're listening to the Self Advocation Power Hour, a SAU1 podcast production. See you next time!

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